Emotional Baggage and being overweight

[Pharos]

Hi Ruben, my monitor packed up on Friday, a new one coming this morning; I replied earlier, but it disappeared.
Yes the decline is saddening, I have an affection for my country also, but that affection is formed in part by the coercive forces prevalent in our formative years, and as a child, much was made of our identity, in a sentimentally self referential way, reinforced by the self belief which the British gained by ravaging the world.
Britain, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, and Spain, to me contain the Anglo-Saxon savage, with all his wrath directed towards every resource the world has. The arrogance exhibited by our ancestors leaves me with a sense of shame, we having shaded much of the globe pink from about 1800 until a few years ago. We even tried to take America, and rightly got our arses kicked. We labelled countries after our resource pillaging, eg. Ivory Coast. How would a wife feel if a husband bought her a sweat shirt with on the front; 'My Shag'?
It is amazing to me that so many of us, and to such an extent, are very selective in what we retain in memory, or more to the point, what we commit to it in the first place.
Part of my integration process has involved the realisations necessary in understanding the nurtured self deceptions which cultures use. The Spitfire was not as good as the Mustang, and Hitler did not say he needed Spitfires, nor were the railings which our population yielded to the authorities under Churchill's instructions, used to make weapons; it was done to boost the moral of the populus by allowing them to think that they were contributing to the war effort.
In my teens some of the old then Ministry of Aviation ex war vets, used to use the term 'U.S.' to describe equipment which failed. Actually, the failure rate of our weapons in both wars was high, especially in the First World War, many of our men killed by the rear of a rifle blowing up in the soldier's face.
If we do not percieve the reality, we cannot possibly attempt to change it with any degree of realism and effectiveness.
Yes, popular culture does as you say, and, notice how it is usually a relatively easy form of culture; it is really easy to be nihilistic, to destroy is so much easier than to create, the former correlating with chaos and the latter with intelligent creativity. Rap may represent a reaction to race or class abuse, but it is never-the-less very egocentric.
I view Obama with great optimism, he could just be the right person in the right place at the right time; he is intelligent, educated, and can empathise with the dispossessed.
My childhood notions of the States are largely gained from cowboy comics, and those names you mention have a profound romanticism for me; Tombstone, El Paso, etc.. I have a great affection for the States, and think it is probably the best country in the world, it certainly has a great deal of relatively untravelled land, unlike the UK.
What is the 'Law of attraction' to which Tess refers? She says that she will not allow herself to be surrounded by negative people, but I feel that in the UK, where she is from, there is a malaise of negativity embodied in a 'dog eat dog' attitude, and a resignation to it as though nothing else is possible. Many people have often become 'All things to all men, and nothing to any of them', in a slippery game of shortcut aquisition. I do not want to be a part of that, and if the majority are such, then I will avoid them. A supposedly spiritual person who believes in Karma, has told me that, because I have a lesson to learn I am responsible for the type of parents I have, and that I am resposible for their intercourse which produced me also. My rational self cannot give creedence to this. I certainly would not have chosen them.

[RubenJames]

Pharos,

When we sailed into New York harbor in 1956 and passed by the Statue of Liberty, my brother tells me that that was the ONLY time he ever saw my father cry...at LAST we were FREE from the terrors of Nazi Germany and, after the war, the horrible prejudice of being former slaves that were freed by the Americans but still Hated by the Germans.

I have NO concept of the horrors that my parents went through...but I realize that the unspeakable things that they suffered through, especially my father, "did" things to his very soul that I can NEVER judge!

As for my mother, the very last words she said to me were, "I LOVE life...life is Beautiful!"

God, I miss them...

[Pharos]

Ruben, Back to the core of this thread. After yesterdays sad news, and over here at least a media outpouring, or should I say exploitation of people's sadness, one surely has to consider Michael Jackson's life in the light of his early upbringing and possible, what I call trojan Horses. The guy seems to have had a curtailed childhood, the normal purpose of which is really experimentation, and a very dominant and strict Father who bullied him into an early career in which he took the stress and responsibilities of an adult. (I remember snatching the wheel of the family car when I was 13, from my drunken mother, in order to avoid a crash.) His videos seem to deal with the conflicts of good and evil, and his role with women seems to be unclear to him in them. He has demonstrated a lack of realistic understnding in his parenting, (child dangling over balcony), which is very understandable given his disrupted growth and development. We will never know, but I suspect that he was suffering enormously inside, and I feel a great deal of empathy and sympathy for him. He seemed to, in one video/song about the environment and the world's suffering, 'take the whole world onto his shoulders', which I did earlier in my life, and he was sensisitve and intelligent. he probably epitomised a disrupted personality, carrying the 'fall-out' with him for the rest of his life, with seekmingly little time or inclination to try to get to grips with his problems, fill in the missing parts, and integrate. So perhaps drugs to 'kill' the pain, and hypertension resulting from internal stress, and the result, how sad.   

[RubenJames]

Pharos,

I commend you for taking the high road with MJ...and looking at his makeup in such a non-judgmental way.

He was used and abused, that's for sure...

An incredible talent...

A very strange person...

[rosejay0918]

We will go to the horrible prejudice of being former slaves that were freed by the Americans but still Hated by the Germans.I think it was only the emotional baggage attached.


_________________
Aprilaire humidifier

[RubenJames]

RoseJay,

In 1970 my mother was able to go to Poland and Germany to visit her family and friends. When she was in Germany, she met up with her former "Slave Master/Owner"... My mother told her that we must forgive and forget and walked up with her arms held out to hug her former Slave Master... The Slave Master put her hand in my mother's face and shoved her away, cursing my mother in German...

"Only" the emotional baggage attached?

I don't think so...

[TomSKinney]

Emotional baggage can be on both sides of a relationship and often is.

[Pharos]

Hi,
After six months or so musing on a message I received from someone in a relatively high position, I have decided to post it and comment on it. It is as follows:
You have just been sent a personal message by Lamplighter on Self-Development Forum.

IMPORTANT: Remember, this is just a notification. Please do not reply to this email.

The message they sent you was:

Pharos,

You are indeed a man of sensitive nature. I do not usually do forums however I had a strong calling to view the baggage theme from Bradley's site. Your letters between Mr. James revealed much of your states (severely bruised emotional, applauded and a whistle physical, highly intelligent, and misguided spiritually) and I felt I must respond. Please do not take my intent of help as a criticism, nor my boldness and overly direct manner as a form meant to wound. Nor take my "bible thumping" references as an attempt to bring religion to your table. I personally view religion(s) as a starting point for knowledge, and the content limits those by its very label and by its traditions, and the wise outgrow it. I prefer reference as a spiritual being only.
It is my view that; as you mediated the lesson(s) with God (by whatever name you refer him/her to be) that you wanted to experience within your earthly life and you chose the environment necessary to attain it, that you are experiencing exactly what you need to. Having said that, I feel the lesson has not been absorbed and morphed as of yet and moving anywhere (as was suggested) is pointless as the lesson will follow and intensify.
So if I may continue being bold in my assessment, I would like to dress your emotional wounds for they are the true baggage you carry causing your male/female energy to be unbalanced and chaos to permeate your soul. Know this, we are all of GOD, and Gods, and as such have the potential to choose how to react to the world and those in it. Unfortunately we colour the NOWs with the past and its knowledge, then judge, whereas it should be experienced in wisdom. The insight to this Wisdom that I am trying to convey is that by judging the NOW based on the PAST, repeats PAST, reinforcing and deepening the "wounds" of self perception, enabling mental distress to disease the physical body. YOU ALONE CHOSE YOUR PRISON AND TORTURE (I assure you, however, that you will never win an argument with yourself as you have all the "dirt" and know all the "buttons" to do one shot kills.) But knowing that you truly are a good person, be fair to yourself (any mistake is only an unlearned lesson) and give yourself the same concessions and courtesy as you would a friend. Forgive yourself of your perceived shortcomings, quit judging yourself, love yourself, for you are WORTHY and the peace that will ensue releases the gate of prison bars and paradise prevails regardless of external sources. That once understood, and continually strove for is the WISDOM. Understanding the principal method of self love to work through and release the baggage carried is the act of returning to GOD. The journey is not an easy feat, further complicated by the greater degrees of imbalance so especially the case for an overly sensitive and intelligent man. I too struggle to maintain the balance, trust that it does become easier and life more bearable, to eventually having larger moments of joy in your life, even in the worst of trials. Attain the balance on a fulltime basis, and you become not part of this world.
Humour is a large ally, integral to the journeys success, and a beautiful gift... so enjoy ... besides, no one gets out of this world alive..but do note, it gets damn tiring dragging a dead body around, so LIVE LIFE TO ITS FULLEST.
So in summation and in plain Canadian style lingo - "Pull the iron rod out of your ass that reaches to your throat and get off your disability and quit moaning."
In all sincerity, I wish you many blessings in your journey and hope that your baggage is swiftly emptied by self love. I pray for you, so that the needed strength to endure this self-realization / examination is available when necessary to remove the emotional cords and attachments as they are resurfaced, faced and released.
In love and light, Wendy
  I hesitated to write about his for some time because I could not resolve sufficiently my thoughts on it, and indeed I had to search further to get even a vague handle on it.

[Pharos]

Sorry, The site has twice thrown mw off, but I continue;
..... and I have come to the conclusion that what the writer infers, is of either Islam or Buddism; that uder the laws of Karma, I am responsible for what happens to me. I have a very hard time as a rationalist accepting this philosphical stance for two reasons; I am a rationalist, and give greater creedence to the illustrable, verifyable and reproduceable, and, I believe that we are all responsible for our own actions. I have even, over the last six months been told that I am responsible for choosing my own parents, and even for the insemination which produced me. I regard this as ridiculous; it gives me the resposibility for the choosing of partners in a period in which I must have been precursor atoms and molecules, and for 'the act' itself. I remember well my mother cursing her decision to marry my father along the lines of "What on Earth did I marry that spineless Slug for?"

[Pharos]

Third time lucky?
 I refuse to be made responsible for that which is not under my control, and increasingly I concur witht the views of Richard Dorkins on religious matters.
 To me the only hope for an improving world is our use of enquiry and reasoning, and the rational processes - provided that all is governed by a moral code. I can see how, and I have experienced how, religious 'cults' attempt to induce guilt in their 'flock', and indeed some of these may have complete personality collapses and spend the rest of their lives in guilt and self contempt. But we all have seen recently the deviousness which has occurred in some sects of religion, and even their attempts at cover-ups for years of abuse of their subjects.
 I continue to evaluate myself and my worth on my treatment of my fellow man, my honesty in evaluating this, and my aspirations, both spiritually and intellectually.
 I wish you all a Happy New Year. Pharos.

[Rangeswar]

Hi Pharos,

Shoving mystical ideas to a rationalist! Hmm, there appears to be possibly alot of well meaning people in the world, but unfortunately sometimes a bit out of line -and often poor connection with the communication. On a positive note, the lady who wrote you (and others similar) at least sparked a reaction, getting me (and others) to pay some attention to this thread!


  

[Sueblue]

Pharos! I wondered what had happened to you.

"I refuse to be made responsible for that which is not under my control." That statement definitely struck a chord.

Sadly, that message doesn't only come from religious/spiritual quarters. I can think of plenty of examples from everyday life.

[Rangeswar]

Surely there are at least some circumstances where one needs to accept responsibility for their actions, even though the consequences are outside of one's control (i.e. if one chooses to drink too much, one may be forced to endure a hangover). And if we can accept the validity of the above example, why cannot the concept apply to other events also (including the subtle, i.e. karma).

Even if we can't fully grasp it, the concept of taking responsibility (embracing a problem) can have a functional (i.e. rational) outcome: empowerment. Blaming others (viewing the problem as unwanted) is easier to grasp, but less likely to empower.
 
An example might be that you make a decision out of fear, (i.e. strive for being 'normal' rather than fully explore the potential of your creative self). Later (after we experience not such a great outcome) we can blame the external for pressurizing us to limit our outcomes, or we can take responsibility for empowering fear.

The law of compassion, however, must also be considered, as each case is different.

For example, taking responsibility as an abused child, i see as irrational. Even if we were to accept that we chose our parents or were assigned to them by the laws of karma, the law of compassion applies to a child, because they were unable to make rational decisions. i.e. it doesn't give the parents a right to become abusive!!!

In other words, i don't have a problem with the concept of the law of karma if viewed spiritually (i.e. compassionately).

[Pharos]

Hallo Rangeswar,
I do not understand why you see the act of getting drunk as the responsibility of anybody but the drinker; once the state of being drunk is experienced, as many young do as they approach adulthood, the necessary analytical knowledge has been gained from the research; the experiment of getting drunk. The drinker then has the choice of so doing or not, knowing the consequences of so doing, and he is responsible.
When you say: "Surely there are at least some circumstances where one needs to accept responsibility for their actions", what do you mean by "their", the actions of others, or one's own?
Why should anybody take responsibility for the actions of another, unless bound to by voluntarily entered into legal contract, or in the role of parent with a misbehaving child?
I am not advocating that we do not take responsibility for our own actions, indeed I believe in embracing our own problems - what else is there to do, they won't just go away?
Yes empowerment results from repeatedly taking responsibility for our predicament, and trying to solve problems; thus we gain the abilities required to so do for future problems. An engineering designer does just this.
I blame those who take actions which harm others, because they are responsible for inflicting that suffering on another; they chose the actions.
There must be numerous children in Iraq, who have lost limbs in the conflict, and who by any stretch of the imagination could not be said to be responsible for their loss. The perpetrators of the violence are responsible, and to be blamed in my opinion.
If one makes a decision out of fear, interesting issues are raised. One is still responsible, but the degree of fear may produce irrational behaviour; in extremis one may be intimidated or threatened, as in the Stanley Milgram experiments, or one may just be simply complying with the dynamic of a group, the power of which, and its ability to impose sanctions on the non compliant, should not be underestimated.
Yes, we must confront our fears, and remain self possessed.
I am not aware of "the law of compassion" in a formal sense, but feel such as a part of my nature.
A child does not have the apparatus to take responsibility for the situations in which he finds himself, rather it is the duty of a parent to educate and help the child achieve personal responsibility through nurtured growth.
I remain skepticle about the law of karma stating that we chose our parents. If one applies logic to the example in my childhood in which my mother asked herself why she had "married that spineless slug", it follows that I am responsible for inflicting pain on my mother by choosing my father for her.
Something in me baulks at such a suggestion, and the phrase "common sense" comes readily to mind.
Please define or state the law of karma, it has only been conveyed to me as: We are all responsible for all aspects of our own lives. This is to me absurd. I am not reponsible for having inherited Raynauds disease for example - it is genetic; unless that is, I am responsible because I chose my parents, and hence each haploid set of genes. Nobody showed me any gene charts at or prior to my birth; wasn't DNA discovered in the early fifties - after my birth in '48?
Best Wishes, Pharos.

[Rangeswar]

Thanks for replying Pharos; -plenty of food for thought.

Part A of my reply: I too like the idea of taking responsibility for one's actions as much as humanly possible: -especially when ill disciplined (i.e. drinking) or in a position of authority, but indeed for all the problems we encounter. With "their actions" in the statement "surely there are at least some circumstances where one needs to accept responsibility for their actions", I am referring to one's own (but there is also a good argument that we should take some responsibility for the action of others [i.e. when authority is misused or when we deliberately irritate others]).  

From the statement "I refuse to take responsibility for consequences outside of my control", I was trying to determine a clearer understanding. A hangover, for example, is a consequence of drinking too much, and then something you are forced to endure (i.e. outside your control). In other words, you could have controlled it by drinking less, but the consequences after drinking too much you cannot control.

So it is only rational to ask, if this is true for the above example, could it also be true for other examples, including the subtle (i.e. the concept [or law] of karma), even if more difficult to grasp. I'm no scholar on the law of karma, but we can rationally try and explore at least the concept of it. If there is suggestion that we may have chosen our parents or assigned to them due to the law of karma, the law is implying that our parents choose each other firstly, and then we picked them (i.e. we are not responsible for their choices).